Josh Petersen Making new year's resolutions

Explore drafting a new city charter for Seattle (read all 3 entries…)
Council pay 4 years ago

A good expose on the scandal that is our council voting themselves exorbitant salaries and rubbing Seattle voter’s noses in it with lines like “you get what you pay for”. Actually no Jan Drago, you get what we pay for. We, the Seattle voters, get no monorail and shortened library hours, you and the rest of the council get a six figure salary, $200K/yr for staff and office expenses (not bad for a lady who’s last job 2 decades ago was running an ice cream stand) and a shiny new office building at tax payer’s expense.

The issue here isn’t pay. The issue is the permanent political class in Seattle that sees itself as “professionals” deserving of “professional pay”. We ought to see rotation in office and the efforts of public servants from across the city, not 3 or 4 terms from six-figure politicos. And you can bet with the council paying themselves so richly, at large elections, and no term limits, folks like ice cream scooper Drago and insurance salesman Licata aren’t about to give anyone else a turn in office anytime soon.



Comments:

(This comment was deleted.)

im in...

what do we do?
how does one start changing things like this?
letters, calls, rallys?

i have printed the article and done a quick read and will re-read it on my way home ONE THE BUS! :)
oh to be sitting next to some city council member when i do. that would be lovely. they should use the public transportation. absolutely!

Carrick is working on staying fit

Living wage

If it’s true what is quoted of Peter Steinbrueck near the end of the article, that his days begin at 5AM and seem endless, then it’s fair to pay these folks enough to live on so they don’t have to have a “day job” or rely on a spouse to bring home the bacon. But these salaries are way out of proportion to the cost of living around here and further entice council members to make a career of it.

Man, these people sure know how to make themselves look bad.

Josh Petersen Making new year's resolutions

Unconvinced

I’m unconvinced that there is anything inherent in Peter’s job that requires him to get up at 5 am and spend the whole day at work. How much of that activity involves raising funds and planning for reelection?

exorbinant?

are you kidding?
i agree we need to revist the seattle three ward system of the late 19th century. at-large elections of council members are not representational.
i don’t, however, think that a little over $100k is outrageous in seattle. $200k for staff and expenses? also not unreasonable. most have about two staffers, and share others.
the point being: $100k is NOT a huge sum. do we want our councilmemebers and government officials (and other city staffers and workers) to scrape by? i’m a 24 year old maintenance worker and i make $45k, do i think the council should make double that? probably. i turn a wrench, they run a city.

Josh Petersen Making new year's resolutions

The point

In fact, the city council don’t run the city. They actually do very little that matters to the daily functioning of anything, other than the creation of more legislation (and their ceaseless efforts at reelection). Also, their salaries are not only far larger than councils in other cities, they aren’t set by market forces (like yours). What would you pay yourself if you got to vote on it? That’s the situation the Seattle Council has created.

These folks occupy positions that were created to be the citizen’s legislative input to complement the mayor’s executive role. But over time, by thwarting district elections, raising their own pay, and expensive downtown office building they’ve loaded on the trappings of a “professional” council. They pay them selves 2.5x the cities avg. household income.

If you read the article, you’d see that they are among the highest paid council in the USA, ahead of far bigger cities like NYC, Chicago, Houston or Phoenix. If you compared their salaries to the Washington State legislature, you’d see that what has happened is the “professionalisation” of what was meant to be a position of public service, not a sinecure to hold on to year after year.

So claiming $100K is not a lot of money is pretty silly. It’s almost twice as much as the council in Phoenix makes and Phoenix is 3X the population (read tax base). But the bigger point isn’t that the salary is too high. It’s that these people see politics as a profession rather than a service. Council pay is linked to reelection rates and the avoidance of district elections.

it's still not that much money...

I understand that the city council doesn’t actually turn on the street lamps, repave roads, arrest drug dealers, or make the city “function” in a literal sense. However, the heads of most organizations don’t do much that matters to the “daily functioning” of their companies/groups. Like the council they “legislate,” provide guidance, and seek to sustain the overall health and future of their organizations. I know my boss doesn’t turn on the lights in the building each morning and unclog the toilets, do you?

While the council does get a little more than twice median ($45k) for the city, and they do get more than NYC, Chicago, Houston and Pheonix, the figures match up pretty well.

Houston and Phoenix councilmembers might make only slightly higher (around $10k) than median, but NYC and Chicago are on par with Seattle (at around 2x). If you look at the census data on the cost of housing it shows why our councilmembers should make more than their counterparts in Houston and Phoenix: It costs 2-3x as much to live here than it does there. Comparing salary figures is rather suspect if you don’t take into account that some places are simly less expensive.

Not dictated by market forces? By what logic? Since it was discussed and made by a group of people rather than by invisible market forces? Then no negotiated contract includes market driven wage scales, because the unions and employers came up with the figures out of nothing, just like the council. They simply suggested “hey, how about $100k?” and everyone agreed. That’s preposterous.

Outside of the money, I would argue that the purpose of the council is not to “complement the mayor’s executive role.” I can infer from your other posts that you support the top down model, and dislike the slowing of the legislative process by conflicts between branches. I can also infer that you simply do not like the legislative process, as you derride is as what the city council does instead of makeing the city “function.”

I do not beleive in the top down model. I think the city council is supposed to argue with the mayor, a lot. I think the mayor is supposed to have to fight to get his plans throught the council. I think the council should get things shot down by the mayor. I think there should be a groundswell of dissent from a neighborhood that makes the mayor and the council change their minds on an issue. I think a large chunk of people should be mad all the time. It keeps us involved.

I also believe in the districting of the council.

And, no matter how much you dislike it, politics is a profession. While members bring their different skills to the table (Steinbrueck in planning, McIver in housing development, etc.) they need to regard it as a profession. They are in charge, and wield phenomenal power, over a large number of people and city resources. If they do not treat it as a proffesional engagement that deserves pusuit, they are simply filling a chair.

Josh Petersen Making new year's resolutions

You are cracked

My other post suggested enlarging the council and getting rid of the mayor altogether – how is that a fan of the top down model?

My point is that serving on the council ought to be a public service. Not a profession.

If you want to worship ex-insurance salesmen, bureaucrats, and ice cream vendors as having special skills deserving of some of the highest salaries in the city (which you keep characterizing as “not that high”) so be it – but don’t mischaracterize my positions.

Instead of “inferring” what I think, you could ask, or bother reading some of the posts I’ve made on the topic. Here’s a fairly lengthy one. This would be far more polite than coming along this thread and just adding heat and no light.

I’m actually a huge fan of messy political process and that is why I suggested expanding the legislative body and curbing the mayor. To label this as being a fan of the “top down” model is comepletely screwy. I actually think we ought to select the council by lot, rather than having an elected council at all. And the council ought to be expanded to 40+ seats to truly represent the citizens of the city. What I object to is a closed political system that professionalizes politics in this city and excludes meaningful citizen involvement. You’ve swallowed this lie that we need “experts” to make the city function and that they deserve princely salaries for the honour of serving in public office.

If you can legislate your own salary, it isn’t set by market forces. To argue otherwise is foolish. Are you trying to claim that Seattle citizens had meaningful input on what the council would be paid? Who are the people who “hired” the council at this wage? Similarly, arguing that 2x the avg income is “not that much” is rediculous. San Antonio pays their council people $20/meeting.

And if you can’t see the connection between why Seattle doesn’t have districts, does have high re-election rates, campaign finance scandals, and also the 3rd highest council salaries in the country, I can’t help you.

How about you start your own thread about how these folks deserve their pay, but ought to support district elections.

last one. good night.

if council membership should be a service, and not a profession then you are correct that the compensation needs to be drastically restructured. if your position is as such, then it seems odd to me that you cite other cities that still offer substantial salaries compared to their median incomes as examples of how far off base seattle is (NYC, Chicago).

the “light” that i think my heat emitted was that many cities that offer less than seattle in dollars, are offering comparable salaries when the numbers are compared to cost of living and median income. that was my point.

to anchor that, san antonio is again an example that simply doesn’t equate. people make about half what they do here, and housing is about a quarter of the cost as it is here. the san antonio city council is part time, ours is not. their city employees make an average of about $27k, ours make an average of $50k. the one place they beat us? their city manager makes about $60k more than our mayor…but keep in mind that people in san antonio make a lot less money. oh, and their council wage scale was set in 1951.

i’m not saying that it is not a good example of how a city council and mayor (just a member) can be a service organization and not a full-time job, but it is a totally different form of government. they can also have closed door policy meetings.

and no matter how silly it may be when i say it, $100k still isn’t that much. it’s just not.

i apologize for disagreeing with you on your thread. i do apologize for inferring your position incorrectly, i should have read more. i would also hope that you would recognize the difference between me “worshipping” ice cream vendors and thinking that councilmembers deserve a good wage, and all people bring skills to the table…even if they just turned a wrench for a living.

i’ll end my participation in this now, as looking over the other threads and the “team,” it becomes apparent this is not about a general investigation into the charter and its reform.

i’ll seek discussion friends elsewhere, i need to figure out how to get 29,000 of them.


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