Jayme Once upon a time I ripped the wings from my spine.
Unfortunately nothing yet to report. After reading a bit of the book I realized I didn’t know enough to challenge any information. So I have been picking up other books as well. I plan on rereading the book again, this time with a better idea of what to challenge or accept. That and I have been in the process of moving to a new state so I am finally settling in and ready to start researching again :) But thanks so much for keeping me on my toes.
The author also wrote ‘Evidence that demands a Verdict’ http://www.amazon.com/Evidence-That-Demands-Verdict-McDowell/dp/185078552X/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2/103-7157737-1836620?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1182085404&sr=8-2
I haven’t read the one you are referring to but I expect it is similar.
Remember you once said that there are other ways to interprete God’s destruction of the tower of Babel? You never told me what they were.
My point was the absurdity of an omnipotent deity needing to destroy the building of a tower on a small planet in a universe where there are more galaxies than people, not to mention the possibility of an infinite number of universes!
How are you getting on with my long list of books regarding what is true and what is not?
One can believe anything by sheer faith but the truth remains the truth regardless of what is believed about it. People used to believe that the sun orbits the Earth but that didn’t change the truth that it is actually the Earth which orbits the sun.
Of course, our catch 22 is that we can’t access the ultimate, absolute and objective truth about reality and life. We are all trapped by our subjectivity.
Despite that limitation, there are still things we can test. For instance, there is the fleece test in the bible (Judges 6, Gideon and the fleece test). I wonder what the result would be if it was carried out in millions of laboratories worldwide under controlled conditions to prevent cheating. I predict that the fleece test would fail. You can try it for yourself.
Jayme Once upon a time I ripped the wings from my spine.
Yes I am familiar with that one as well. Although I have not read it.
As for Babel – let me be completely honest and say that I am not comfortable spouting my own theories about it yet. Religion is… a tautology (if that would be correct to say). It renders debate difficult.
Also, I have not started on any books yet. It has been a busy summer for me, and I am hardly making progress on my McDowell book. I will let you know when I do.
P.S. I think you and I differ in our definitions of faith.
Thanks for your post. Take your time. There is no rush. I am using the dictionary definition for faith i.e. belief that is not based on proof. Is there another definition?
Jayme Once upon a time I ripped the wings from my spine.
Indeed that is one definition of faith. But in its biblical context, faith is NOT belief w/o evidence but rather TRUST in what one has REASON to believe is true. In the Bible, faith (i.e. trust) in Christ was argued for on the basis of evidence (miracles, the resurrection, etc.). In fact, many Christians do not even fully understand the true biblical meaning of faith, often themselves accepting it as some whimsical belief. But faith in the Bible is NOT blind and is always accompanied by some earlier demonstration. Thereby providing the means through which one could have faith (i.e. confidence, trust) that God would fulfill his promises. It is NOT an irrational leap of faith, but a TRUST and LOYALTY to what has already been demonstrated, and what is promised to be demonstrated in the future.
http://bible.cc/hebrews/11-1.htm
The above website shows different wordings of Hebrews 11:1 ‘Now faith is assurance of things hoped for, a conviction of things not seen.’ What you are saying is different from the biblical view of faith.
As you know, Protestantism is based on the concept of ‘Saved by faith in Jesus alone’. You are saying that this faith is more like trust that has been earned through prior conduct. If that is the case, then there is little justificaton for having faith in Jesus.
Look at history. Look at how the bible was put together. Look at how Christianity got shaped. Not to mention the inaccuracies and contradictions in the Bible! Matthew 23:36 is frankly embarrassing. The doctrine of Christinity is a false, unethical and hypocritical construction by men.
Jayme Once upon a time I ripped the wings from my spine.
Well I think I addressed the definition of faith above – but as for my overall impression of the article, I understand the position in terms of her definition and not thinking it was compatible with reason. But I think the article went overboard by implying an intolerance for people of faith, regardless of faith, and regardless of what manner of faith. I imagine this same person touts freedom of the press, and the pursuit of happiness, etc. Pick and Choose intolerance is a dangerous game to play.
Actually, she is a friend of mine and is really nice! She is critical of faith. If you look at all the awful things that have been carried out in the name of faith, you will find criticism of it is well justified. I know faith comes in many shapes and sizes and forms and not everyone does atrocious things. I know some people do benevolent and altruistic things because of their faith. Faith is not all bad. I am not intolerant of faith but I am wary of using faith to justify actions and inactions. You can read more of her blogs if you want to: http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/sue_blackmore/index.html
And here is her website: http://www.susanblackmore.co.uk
Just wondering how you are. No response to my last three replies to your posts.
Worth considering:
http://www.bandoli.no/index.htm
Jayme Once upon a time I ripped the wings from my spine.
Sorry! I have been out of town for the past two weeks and I have visitors this week so I will get back to as soon as I can :) TTYL.
Hi, hope you’re well. Some time ago we had discussed:
http://www.ebonmusings.org/atheism/guestessays/religion101.html
I had said that Jesus had not mentioned castration. I was wrong: Matthew 19:11-12 “Jesus replied, ‘There are some eunuchs who were born that way, and there are some who made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven.’”
Further links:
http://www.bettybowers.com/biblequiz.html
http://www.bettybowers.com
http://www.thebricktestament.com
http://www.landoverbaptist.org
Don’t worry – I am not rushing you. I will wait as long as I live. It’s just that I don’t know when I will die. Could be anytime from now to a few decades. All the best.
Jayme Once upon a time I ripped the wings from my spine.
Hello again! I have really had a busy summer. I got a virus when I returned home from my last trip which lasted a week and from which I am still coughing constantly. It really is annoying. Then I went to DC to visit family and then I went to NYC with friends :) I just got back on Monday. And now I have school starting shortly… which I am very excited for of course. I am taking an interesting religious studies lecture course on Buddha, Jesus, and Plato. I am also taking a Philosophy of Religion course which will prove interesting I think.
While the summer had been busy it has also been productive for my own intellectual progress. I have in fact shared some of our conversations with friends which has proven interesting in terms of their own perspectives. And I am reading a very interesting though I think not an intentionally theological book called the God Game. Admittedly it is fiction because of all the traveling I have been doing. I have yet to get back on track with my educational reading. Now that I am starting the above classes I think I will refer back to your list and see which books would compliment my classes. Have you been reading anything?
So sorry about the virus you caught. Hope you recover soon. I am glad you go to see family and friends. We can take up our exploration when you can.
I have read several more books. Some of them are not relevant to our discussion of what is real and what is ethical. The relevant ones are:
1. “Letter to a Christian Nation” by Sam Harris
2. “Mean Genes” by Terry Burnham and Jay Phelan
I highly recommend both.
I read the preview of ‘God Game’ on Amazon. I am already impressed. Reminds me of a short story I wrote when I was at school about someone who uses an omnipotent software!
Your course on Plato, Buddha and Jesus should be interesting. Have you read books by Thich Nhat Hanh? He has written comparative books on Buddha and Jesus and is a great writer.
What did your friends think about our discussion so far? Have they read our posts on 43?
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