HEHinze is editing my novel for the final time!
As happy as I am that you’ve found something that suits you, I’d just like to say that many religions don’t have ludicrous, proofless material in it. Just because it’s hard to prove something doesn’t mean it’s invalid or wrong.
Sorry if this brought you down from your high, I just felt the need to say it. :)
Have a good day!
peasant36 is making progress
Don’t worry you haven’t brought me down from my high :D
I honestly believe that people are happier, healthier creatures without religious ideas. But I may take up worshipping the Great Donut In The Sky (Peace Be Upon Her) if all else fails.
HEHinze is editing my novel for the final time!
Okay, cool. I was worried about offending someone, which I hate doing. :)
But also, if one believes there is no god or creator (which I think that if there is a creation, there is a creator), what do they even have to live for? That means they just are created by a random series of chemical accidents and have no reason for being alive, and no reason to try to be better people. There would be no point to anything, really.
It also brings Pascal’s wager into play. ”. . . though the existence of God cannot be determined through reason, a person should wager as though God exists, because so living has everything to gain, and nothing to lose.”
peasant36 is making progress
You don’t have to worry about offending me, it’s quite a difficult thing to do!
There are plenty of reasons to be better people. For one, people are nicer to better people. It feels good to act in a good way. There are a lot of advantages to being a good person. A random series of chemical accidents is still a pretty amazing thing when you think about it, let alone the fact it happened in existence, or the universe or whatever. So if there is no point to living if you don’t believe in a creator, what is the point according to who you think created you? (I’m curious.)
In Pascal’s time there was a lot of good reason to pretend you were a christian, given how much power christians had, and how viciously they could treat nonbelievers. Nowadays in the West religion doesn’t have the intimidatory power it used to have so there is no real external reason to believe in it. You have plenty to lose by being religious, in personal terms. The abdication of responsibility that religion affords I think has a vast affect. People think that sitting in a room and praying about something is actually doing something. People fear that they’re going to go to hell for mistakes they may have made. People repress their sexuality because it doesn’t fit in with whatever their creator is supposed to believe.
Ultimately, as I see it, the ‘creator’ is a man made creation. Whether created on purpose or sincerely – reason is a far better guide to how to live your life and treat others.
HEHinze is editing my novel for the final time!
Good to hear. :)
Yes, there might be plenty of reasons to be nicer people, but if you take away God, being nice becomes a preference and isn’t a moral issue. Yes, it might feel good to act in a good way, but that is only in some cases. People might find it rewarding for themselves to steal, or maybe killing gives them a thrill. And while I agree that the science behind creation is a fascinating thing indeed, I believe that God worked through science. I don’t think it was just ‘bam!’ then Adam was there, (not a Big Bang sound effect, I assure you :) ). A reason (though I’m sure it’s not the only one) that I believe God created man was because, let’s think about it, God has infinite power and can create anything he wishes. Why would he just sit there and do absolutely nothing with His power? Also, when He made the Earth, we were placed there to take care of it. Even scientists have said that this planet needs a caretaker. Asking why God would want people to live is like asking why people would want children or company to be around.
Yes, I’ll admit that the church was quite vicious to those who didn’t believe in all they said (my ancestors from that time were brutally persecuted for being some of the first Protestants), but how vicious they were is not relevant. What Pascal means by “nothing to loose” is not in the context of our world, but more so the context of burning in hell. It might have been safer to be a Christian back in those times, but now we can look at the issue without our livelihood on the line. It’s basically saying this:
Scenario 1:
There is no God.
If you’re an Atheist, there is no happiness after death, no true meaning for being alive, and you just do what feels good for you until you die. The religious folk end up in the same situation as you do.
Scenario 2:
There is a God.
If you’re an Atheist, you still believe there is no happiness after death, no true meaning for being alive, and you just do what feels good for you until you die. The religious folk, however, end up with happiness after death and a true purpose. When they die, they’re not the ones burning in hell forever.
Overall, in scenario one, everyone ends up in the same spot, but in scenario two the religious end up with the good deal. Atheists have a lose, lose situation. The religious have a 50-50 chance at a winning situation, and since no one can possibly determine if there 100% is a God or not, it is safer to go with believing there is a God.
That is Pascals wager.
You might have some things to loose in personal terms, but why should that matter? Does that mean you are just living for yourself? If so, that means people should be allowed to do anything they want. Killing, rape, stealing, etc: all of that is given permission to go on.
As far as reason goes, the Bible if full of reasoning, as well as science and logic (though it might be hard to see at first). Many scientists of today look at the Bible and see much of what it says (as far as how the Earth works, events that have happened, and the general way things work) is factual.
P.S. Woah, that was a lot of text! Sorry if it takes a while to read! And I must say, you are one of the first (if not only) Atheists I’ve ever been able to have a civil conversation with!
